On December 11, 2020, when POP MART was listed in Hong Kong, the skepticism and controversy surrounding this trendy toy company overshadowed the sounds of champagne popping and toasting.

As is the case with many new species, the sudden emergence and rapid rise of this 'new industrial' company drew countless magnifying glasses. Under some magnifying glasses, POP MART was transformed into 'Bubble Mart' and 'Fraud Mart.'

Outsiders do not understand POP MART's business model, why young people are crazy about exquisite yet affordable trendy toys, why Molly, which has no story but only an image, has been popular for over a decade, selling hundreds of millions, and why investors would elevate a toy company to a market cap of hundreds of billions—actually, three to four years ago, investors were just as puzzled and disdainful of POP MART as the current skeptics, but the cost was that most investment Funds lost the opportunity to participate in a capital feast.

On January 1, 2021, Wang Ning, Chairman and CEO of POP MART, accepted an exclusive interview with Ma Yue, the founder of the Letter Ranking, marking Wang Ning's first public statement since POP MART went public.

This 33-year-old young man tries to explain again the reasons behind POP MART's rise: it is a company that meets the spiritual needs of users; young girls (75% of POP MART's users are women aged 15-30) buy Molly as young boys buy AJ; POP MART did not become successful overnight but has gone through ten years of tough entrepreneurship, stumbling countless times; the core and barriers of POP MART are far from being easily replicated by imitators.

It is evident that external doubts will not be dispelled easily. This is largely due to the misunderstanding of POP MART, which occurs not only at the level of business logic but also delves into the depths of social culture and psychology.

The confusion and disdain of middle-aged people create a strong contrast with the love and admiration of young people. In this sense, the gap before POP MART is the generational gap itself.

Crossing the generational gap is certainly difficult, but it has happened before; Bilibili's "breaking the circle," which shares similar values with POP MART, is a recent success story. Although it is challenging, at least Wang Ning has taken the first step.

The following are excerpts from the interview:

• Buying trendy toys is about purchasing a sense of satisfaction and small happiness.

A letter board: An authoritative media report on POP MART, did you see it? It includes terms like addiction and gambling psychology.

Wang Ning: The article mainly discusses the booming 'Blind Box Economy' (and the reasons for its popularity) and also points out that this industry needs to develop in a regulated manner. As a result, some media took it out of context, saying it calls for regulation of the blind box economy. You can interview most of our users; I think they buy trendy toys more for a sense of small happiness and satisfaction.

A letter board: How can we explain their mentality? Does it really have any connection with gambling psychology?

Wang Ning: Let's imagine a scenario - you are at a shopping mall and come across POP MART, with so many toys, including Harry Potter, Jay Chou, Mickey Mouse, and Molly. As a fan of Jay Chou, you decide to buy a toy of him as a treat for yourself. The blind box format might add to the fun of your shopping; whether the box contains a racing Jay Chou or a basketball-playing Jay Chou, it's still that Jay Chou you like. So, you are buying this product more because you like Jay Chou or an IP like Molly, rather than its sales format.

A letter board: Some hidden models on Xianyu are being sold at very high prices.

Wang Ning: Individual extreme cases are always more easily magnified. We once released a limited Christmas product, and the previous popularity of that artist's works was limited, so we only produced a small quantity. We did not expect this series to be very popular, leading to the hidden models being highly sought after; rarity increases value, thus the price is relatively high.

However, not all series have a high premium in the second-hand market. So, some people cite these extreme cases and say: look, many people buy blind boxes just to get rich one day. This is an unobjective sensational comment.

POP MART is not a Blind Box company.

Alphabet List: After POP MART went public, why was it surrounded by doubts?

Wang Ning: It may be because POP MART has no intersection with the lives of most people. We currently have more than 7 million members, accounting for only 1% of the total population born after 1980 (Editor’s note: According to the sixth census, the total number of people under 40 is 0.7648 billion). Because there is no intersection, many people do not really know what is happening.

Looking at the history of business in China, it is very rare for a new company to go public and break 100 billion, and be disconnected from the lives of the vast majority of people. This leads to a very complex mindset in how outsiders view us. But this is normal; more than twenty years ago when the Internet first appeared, many people also did not understand what use this virtual world had. In our childhood, the Internet and e-sports were also demonized, but now they have entered our daily lives.

Alphabet List: Many people around me not only do not understand but are even at the level of being angry: how could a company that makes Blind Boxes suddenly have a market cap of 100 billion? With their experience, they cannot comprehend this.

Wang Ning: The French philosopher Henri Bergson once said: "Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancers are mad." This applies very well to POP MART. Many people say that POP MART is a Blind Box company, which means that their understanding of this matter has clearly gone off track.

Alphabet List: Do you mean to say that you are not a Blind Box company?

Wang Ning: Blind Boxes are indeed an important product format for us, and we have popularized them in China. However, to say that POP MART is just a Blind Box company is clearly biased.

The first Blind Box is not a complex business model, and second, it is not an exclusive patent of POP MART.

The surprise eggs we played with as children, Japan's capsule toys, and the surprise toys sold in the USA for over a billion each year are all Blind Boxes. POP MART essentially operates as an IP operation company with trendy toys as its carrier, much like a company that enhances the impression of its products by adding a beautiful 'box.' As a result, everyone claims that your success is fundamentally due to the well-made 'box,' which is not objective.

Letter Ranking: Isn't it true that a well-made Blind Box is positively correlated with a company's development?

Wang Ning: The Blind Box is just a way of adding value to sales. The logic of Blind Box companies cannot explain why so many different IP products packed in Blind Boxes have varying levels of popularity.

Are consumers paying for the Blind Box format or for the trendy toys inside? Furthermore, among the companies in the market that produce Blind Boxes, why do only a few succeed? The current competitive landscape of domestic business cannot solely attribute success to the model; it requires more comprehensive operational capabilities and competitive barriers.

Letter Ranking: Skeptics believe that 80% of POP MART's sales in the first half of 2020 were achieved through the Blind Box format. If that’s the case, why don't you acknowledge that it's a Blind Box company?

Wang Ning: We believe LEGO is a great company; it has created a 'language' and a 'system,' and I also want to form my own 'language' and 'system.' Therefore, in the early stages, we adopted a uniform packaging, size, selling methods, and hidden ratios to establish our early product communication and cultural atmosphere.

Letter Ranking: If the Blind Box has already become a 'language,' can POP MART still abandon it?

Wang Ning: "Conveying beauty" is our original aspiration when we started the business. Blind Boxes can increase the entertainment of retail, doubling the joy, and it has become part of our genes.

Alphabet Ranking: Is happiness not enough, and do we need to double the happiness?

Wang Ning: People are usually very happy when receiving gifts from others, and shopping can be seen as a process of buying gifts for oneself. The level of happiness when receiving a gift is, to some extent, proportional to the suspense. Adding a bit of the unknown feels more like someone else has given you a gift, and you will feel more satisfied because of it.

Alphabet Ranking: Is it common in POP MART for staff to privately open Blind Boxes, leading to public concern?

Wang Ning: With the company's growth, we now have thousands of employees, and as the scale increases, the difficulty in management also rises. We have zero tolerance for behaviors that cross the red line, and we appreciate the supervision from all parties. We are also working hard to improve the release system, using technology and improving sales rules to reduce the occurrence of human-related issues.

Alphabet Ranking: Small problems can also lead to major issues.

Wang Ning: As a publicly listed company, we need to improve management, which is why we insist on direct sales, aiming for as much controllability as possible to provide users with a better experience. Overall, we should be among the industry leaders in standards, but we will continue to pursue improvement.

Alphabet Ranking: Does trendy play and POP MART share values?

Wang Ning: The value concept of POP MART is to convey beauty.

Letter List: Trendy toys are a new phenomenon; have regulatory bodies contacted POP MART?

Wang Ning: We believe that trendy toys are still an industry that brings joy to everyone, and we are happy to be ambassadors of beauty. Of course, the sales form of Blind Boxes may easily be misunderstood and exaggerated, and it cannot be ruled out that this form may be abused in the future. To avoid stigmatizing the entire industry, we are also willing to cooperate with all regulatory parties to make the industry healthier and more orderly.

How much is POP MART really worth?

Letter List: Your stock price has risen too quickly, reaching 100 billion after going public, which inevitably leaves many people in disbelief.

Wang Ning: I try not to pay attention to the stock price, and I also ask the management team to avoid looking at it, so that the stock price does not influence the company’s long-term decision-making and short-term management.

Letter List: Many people believe that POP MART is not worth 100 billion Hong Kong dollars.

Wang Ning: We are very grateful for everyone's trust in this IPO; we have received recognition from many top investment institutions.

Alphabet List: Why are investors so keen on POP MART?

Wang Ning: We are an emerging industry, as the industry leader and pioneer, we have formed a complete IP industry closed loop, with a lot of growth and expansion potential in the future. Our growth has been relatively stable and we have good financial performance, with a relatively young management team. We have already been deeply engaged in the industry for ten years with a high barrier to entry. In short, we believe that our competitiveness in terms of imagination and operational strength is strong.

Alphabet List: Why do you say POP MART is a 'new industry'?

Wang Ning: In some perspectives, POP MART has epoch-making significance. On one hand, unlike many highly valued Internet companies, POP MART engages in the real economy—selling physical products and operating physical stores, with products made in China. On the other hand, the products we offer are non-essential items, which are closely related to the overall strengthening of national power and the Consumption Upgrade.

Great success requires enemies.

Alphabet List: Companies generally face a wave of resignations after going public; how do you respond?

Wang Ning: I don’t believe that going public will lead to a wave of resignations; on the contrary, we now have a bigger stage to accomplish great things, which will also attract more talent.

Alphabet List: After you went public, didn't MINISO immediately launch a TOP TOY?

Wang Ning: This is very common in the business field. I often say that small successes require friends, while big successes require enemies. We are still very welcoming to more excellent companies to join in and expand the潮流玩具 Industry.

Of course, as a company that has been To C from day one, our physical stores are all located in popular shopping centers. What we sell, how we sell it, what products are hot, and how they become popular can be said that we have always had no secrets. Many businesses have constantly wanted to learn about and enter this industry, but from the results, we still maintain a noticeable competitive advantage.

Alphabet List: Why are you so confident that you can't create another POP MART?

Wang Ning: We have two core barriers. One is the hard barrier built from more than ten years of experience in operation, team, and industry understanding accumulated by entrepreneurs. The other is our IP and excellent leading artists, which are very scarce and cannot be recreated just with money. This is an invisible barrier.

Alphabet List: A few years ago, they might have noticed POP MART, but may not have recognized its value, and how the capital markets would acknowledge it.

Wang Ning: Some people did not see it, and some entrepreneurs looking for creativity saw it but did not learn. After POP MART went public, people did not notice the so-called second, third, or fourth place in this industry. The prospectus cites a report by Frost & Sullivan, mentioning that POP MART ranks first in market share, though it only accounts for 8.5%; the others are all globally well-known traditional toy brands, and our growth is also the fastest.

Alphabet List: Other brands are far behind, so why does your market share only stand at 8.5%?

Wang Ning: 8.5% is because research institutions have calculated the market quite broadly, which relates to how the潮流玩具 market is defined. If we only count art toys (Art Toy), POP MART's share would be considerably substantial. It depends on how you draw this circle.

Alphabet List: With such market share, is it soon going to hit a ceiling?

Wang Ning: The biggest advantage of the IP industry is its high extensibility, and it can connect to many industries. Our true value lies in the industrial value of IP. Of course, different products and industry extensions of IP have different opportunities and challenges.

Alphabet List: You previously drew a clear line with Internet Plus-Related companies, but if an Internet Plus-Related company sets its sights on the trendy toy market, investing in a company, burning money without regard for losses to seize market share, and expanding both online and offline, would this approach pose a significant challenge to POP MART?

Wang Ning: The competition in the cultural industry is different. It's like just having money doesn't mean you can make any singer into Jay Chou; the ability to create a Jay Chou is indeed a scarce resource. However, POP MART has already accumulated advantages in this aspect, possessing an increasingly strong appeal to top artists and star-making abilities.

Alphabet List: Will this scarcity limit the company's growth scale?

Wang Ning: We are still on the fast track. By the end of 2020, there will be more stores (POP MART's IPO prospectus shows more than 160 stores); for such a large market in China, this is only the beginning. We currently have over 7 million members, and compared to the 700-800 million young people, there is still a lot of growth space. In addition, we are also Bullish on the rapidly growing overseas market.

In addition to the existing businesses mentioned above, there is also a large space for innovation. For example, we will soon launch larger products with greater collectible value. More and more young people like to display various trendy toys at home. Between trendy toys and vases, if the new generation has to choose, they would definitely choose trendy toys.

In addition to vertical in-depth cultivation within the industry, there is also horizontal exploration outside the industry, such as theme parks, film content, art galleries, contemporary art, etc., which are all potential directions.

Alphabet List: Expansion is one aspect, but you just said to restrain?

Wang Ning: Our logic is like this — hope to serve today's users well, strive to capture a little bit of tomorrow's users, but resolutely not to touch the day after tomorrow's users.

Alphabet List: Why not touch the day after tomorrow's users?

Wang Ning: Because trends are a cycle. Every trend goes through four stages: 'initiation, formation, expansion, and termination.' Today's users initiate and form the market; tomorrow's users expand the market, but the day after tomorrow's users may bring the trend to an end. We want trends to last longer and patiently wait for those 'day after tomorrow users' to grow into 'tomorrow users.'

Alphabet List: So, you won't rush to explore the sinking market and move towards the third and fourth tier cities?

Wang Ning: We will place vending machines in third and fourth tier cities, but won't be too aggressive.

Alphabet List: You just said you wouldn't use the Internet Plus-Related approach, but I see that now, whether it's Wechat Mini Program or Tmall, sales are increasing. The online market should clearly be becoming more important, right?

Wang Ning: The Internet is just a tool. Thirty years ago, a website could help you raise money; but now all companies have their own official websites and online stores, the Internet has returned to its fundamental essence as a tool. What truly determines a company's competitiveness is still its core.

Letter List: What is the core competitiveness of POP MART?

Wang Ning: First, we believe in the power of design and beauty, which is our soul. Second, we value and recognize the worth of artists; we gathered many artists early on to become comrades in promoting this industry together. Furthermore, we translate the power of art and design into exquisite products that satisfy people's spiritual needs. During this process, we built a team through long-term accumulation and attracted more artists. These are our core and barriers.

Young people's values are very complete.

Letter List: You just said that POP MART is a company that sells happiness, can you explain that?

Wang Ning: The businesses that are at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs are easier to scale, while the higher up you go, the harder it becomes. POP MART operates in the upper layer of Maslow's hierarchy, where customers purchase not out of necessity but for culture.

Letter List: Why did you 'jump grades', bypassing basic needs to pursue cultural businesses that meet users' higher spiritual needs?

Wang Ning: We have believed in the power of design and beauty for the past ten years, believing that design and beauty are valuable. This may seem ordinary, but not many people believe in and persist with it.

Letter List: What made you believe in this statement?

Wang Ning: I have always liked art and business, wanting to combine them; of course, it is also related to a whole generation of young people - those born in the 90s and 00s prefer art, and their outlook on life and values are more complete.

Alphabet List: What does having a complete value system mean?

Wang Ning: In the previous generation, when material resources were relatively scarce, many aspects of our lives were limited. Most of the previous generation were struggling for basic material life, such as housing, cars, and residency. But now more and more young people pursue life rather than mere survival. They yearn for a beautiful life and seek spiritual satisfaction; they are wealthier, especially in a spiritual sense.

Alphabet List: Is the world really that beautiful?

Wang Ning: In the past, many artists in China expressed their anger and dissatisfaction through artistic creation, thereby expressing their thoughts. However, I believe that in the future, more and more artists in China will express their thoughts and feelings through love for the world. This is a very important generational difference. When young people's values are becoming established, living in a better world, why should they resent this world?

Alphabet List: This value perspective seems very reminiscent of Bilibili.

Wang Ning: Why do young people like various internet celebrities? The term began to gain popularity a few years ago, with famous check-in spots, internet celebrity hotels, internet celebrity restaurants, internet celebrity attractions... The reason is simply that they are well-designed or unique; this is the power of design and beauty. This is a trend of the times, and as young people's values become more complete, more and more people will begin to pursue the value of beauty and design.

In the past, the previous generation would never hire a designer for home renovations; just like in the skits on the Spring Festival Gala, they would have to go buy even a single nail from the wholesale market, fearing that middlemen would profit from price differences. However, now with renovations, more and more young people are willing to hire designers, and everyone is starting to be willing to pay for design.

The letter list: This indicates that China's decades of economic construction have achieved results.

Wang Ning: This is the trend; I believe that in the future, good design may cost more than renovation expenses, because consumers will ultimately trust the power of design and beauty, and are more willing to pay for design rather than just wooden boards.

The letter list: Some people compare POP MART to "the Moutai of the post-90s era," do you agree?

Wang Ning: A large part of Moutai's premium is to satisfy spiritual needs.

The letter list: Where is the premium of POP MART reflected?

Wang Ning: As you can see, my office is now filled with toys. Although they are lifeless, you can feel that these toys infuse a certain vitality into this space. Just imagine, if there were no toys, what kind of mood would you have sitting in a clean, empty office?

The letter list: For those who do not like trendy toys, having more does not make sense.

Wang Ning: I don't know if you have used xx before?

Letter List: Is it that sneaker trading platform?

Wang Ning: If you have used it, you will find that the sneakers discussed and traded by the young people on it are all various collaborations, limited editions, and special models, but you won't see these sneakers in most Nike and Adidas stores; it feels like two different worlds. What is seen is not necessarily the truth; a visit to a regular sneaker store does not reveal the full picture of the sneaker market, and what you see in our physical stores is not the complete picture of the trendy toy industry.

POP MART has initiated a revolution.

Letter List: What is the relationship between trendy toys and art?

Wang Ning: Although it is called trendy toys, in fact, in English, it is called Art Toy, which stands for artist toys, and the artistic component should be greater than that of the toy. The reason it is called a toy is that people think its material is like a toy, made of plastics, PVC, or rubber. With these materials, artists find it fun; twenty years ago, everyone thought it was cool; moreover, these materials can achieve perfection similar to 3D Printing, with three-dimensional lines, complex colors, and very rich artistic expression.

POP MART is not just creating artworks; it can be said that we have profoundly influenced the entire design and art circles to a certain extent.

Letter List: Why?

Wang Ning: Because in the past two to three decades, art and design have essentially become adjuncts in various industries; artists print their designs on phone cases, plates, clothes, scarves, or on some promotional material. Art has lost its independence, turning into an accessory. However, the products of POP MART have created a new medium—it is a combination of sculpture and painting, which is art itself, without any additional functions.

We have shown many people studying art or design a possibility where they do not need to consider other functional aspects, only focusing on good design can yield commercial value, even making them stars. Before us, which contemporary artists could hold signings like stars?

We unintentionally carried out a revolution, similar to the revolution that records brought to music over a hundred years ago. Previously, artist toy producers like Molly operated in a workshop-style production, making dozens or hundreds using simple molds. Because of their artistic value, they gained fans, and due to their limited numbers, they gained collectible value, leading to a vibrant secondary market over time. However, before the advent of records in music, the toy industry was at best in a semi-commercialized state.

Letter Ranking: How did this "revolution" start?

Wang Ning: In 2016, I visited Wang Xinming, the designer of Molly, in Hong Kong. I told him that we were going to fully commercialize your creations. Just like how the record industry transformed artists, we would produce Molly not using simple molds but through industrialized methods, starting with smaller production sizes and lower prices, constantly adding interesting elements, placing Molly in the best positions in shopping malls, bringing Molly into public view and letting as many people as possible get to know you. We fundamentally changed this industry following such logic, conducting a true revolution.

Letter Ranking: Had any other companies done this before POP MART?

Wang Ning: We started from scratch and opened a new industry, this is our value. Four or five years ago, when I said I wanted to sell toys to adults, everyone looked at me as if I were crazy. How could adults possibly buy toys? Just like 'bald heads don’t need to buy shampoo' seems perfectly reasonable, no one thought this was an industry, or that it could grow that big. Now everyone says, you really struck gold, but in reality, it takes tremendous courage and effort to pioneer an unfamiliar industry. When we first started, it was pitch dark ahead, and we couldn't see a future at all.

Aspire not to rely on Fund's money.

Letter Ranking: Investors understood during your roadshows, but they hadn’t seen your future before. You didn’t take investments from Tencent and Alibaba, why not? Because Tencent and Alibaba brought not just money, for example, in sales via Wechat Mini Program and e-commerce, they could have offered some resources.

Wang Ning: If done well, all enterprises are willing to cooperate with you, we don't take sides.

Letter List: Why have you not raised any funds in the past three years?

Wang Ning: Because the company started to be profitable. We had a net income of over 100 million in 2018, about 400-500 million in 2019, and as our finances became healthier, we became more restrained in our store expansion and did not need too much money, so we have not gone to the market for financing.

After all, we were already in our 10th year at the time of going public, and basically all Funds had seen us, we had also been let down by most Funds. So when we started to do well, we resolved not to accept money from these Funds.

Letter List: Did POP MART experience its biggest difficulties when it was most in need of money and was let down by most Funds?

Wang Ning: I don't think that not being able to find money was a bad thing at the time. Looking back now, at least there are several advantages, first, it forced us to treat money as money, we had to spend every penny wisely, think twice before acting, and our decision-making was actually more rational.

Second, we did not raise money, but the whole industry also did not raise money, the VC did not understand this industry either, which also gave us the opportunity to quietly grow for many years.

By the time the window of opportunity arrived, we suddenly appeared under the spotlight.

Thirdly, because we haven't taken that much money, the management has a better grip on control over the company.

Alphabet List: Before the listing, there was a joke that said, before POP MART went public, investors viewed Wang Ning as having an average education, never having held a proper job, speaking in a calm manner without much charisma, and his team lacking elites. After the company went public, investors' evaluations changed, now seeing him as composed, not talkative, with emotions not easily displayed, possessing many excellent qualities of a consumer entrepreneur. Are you unaware of this joke?

Wang Ning: Both compliments and criticisms may not represent the real you.

Trendy toys are purely about the content itself.

Alphabet List: At one point, you aimed to emulate Disney, which relates to the discrepancy between public perception and POP MART's self-positioning. They feel, how can trendy toys be compared to Disney, which has such stories, content, and a long-standing IP?

Wang Ning: Van Gogh's paintings and the 'Mona Lisa' are also IPs; stories can give rise to great IPs. Without a story, it doesn't necessarily mean that an IP cannot emerge.

Alphabet List: The problem is that these masterpieces have stood the test of time, while POP MART's trendy toys have not.

Wang Ning: The characteristic of today's society is fragmented time. In the past, we had the time to consume content, but do people now have time for so much content?

Letter List: Good content ultimately tends to attract the attention of the public.

Wang Ning: While traditional content is undoubtedly important, it should also be viewed dialectically. Some say that Minions or Mickey Mouse are good content. However, it seems that no one can casually recount a story about Mickey Mouse or a Minion without thinking deeply. Many IPs express a certain emotion and state, making you fond of the character.

Mickey Mouse is a form of content carrier, and designer toys are also a form of content carrier. They serve no function, as function implies temporality and inherent degeneracy. Designer toys, much like art, are pure content in themselves.

Letter List: In the era of fragmentation, is content also fragmented?

Wang Ning: If time can form a valuable IP in the mind, then if I place a designer toy in my office, the time I spend gazing at it will far exceed the time spent watching any IP. Currently, even with 90% of the shows on iQiyi, Tencent, and Youku being popular, you might not have time to watch them.

Letter List: So are POP MART users transferring their viewing time to play with designer toys?

Wang Ning: People's ways of thinking should not be confined by established frameworks; traditional content is not a necessity. Transformers also started with toys, created to sell toys, and then began to animate.

This year we invested in an animated film called "Nezha Reborn," which will be released on New Year's Day. We will first buy a (film industry) ticket to learn about how this industry works.

Letter Ranking: Mickey Mouse has a story to support it, so its popularity may last a long time. How can you ensure that a toy like Molly, which relies purely on emotional appeal to resonate with users, can stay popular for a long time?

Wang Ning: This is also a misunderstanding. Many stories have generated many IPs, but the proportion that shines commercially is not high; having a story does not guarantee the success of an IP.

Letter Ranking: The question is, how long can an IP without a story remain popular?

Wang Ning: It’s like singers; how long they stay popular depends on their creative ability. Singers with only one hit song often fade quickly, but if you are Jay Chou, consistently creating high-quality music over a long period allows you to remain popular for many years. Our artists have very strong continuous creative abilities. Molly was born 14 years ago and still has strong market appeal today, which reflects the designer's long-term artistic creative capability.

Letter Ranking: Besides the designer's ability, what else have you done to ensure the long-lasting popularity of the IP?

Wang Ning: Continuous investment. If there was only one Star Wars movie, it wouldn't have the influence it has today. Releasing a new installment every few years continuously reinforces consumers' perceptions, making the IP sustainable. For Molly, every time a new series is launched, it's like releasing a new Star Wars film.

Letter Ranking: If too many sequels are produced, will users experience aesthetic fatigue?

Wang Ning: Trendy toys are becoming platform-based. We do not rely on any single IP; the leading trendy toy IPs are here, and the top IPs from other industries are also here. We are like record giants, where resources will lean towards the most popular and promising IPs. Molly is like a blank slate, able to combine with the most popular elements of the era, resulting in a longer lifecycle, as well as richer means of expression and content.

This is a collaboration between the popular Japanese monster artist (Hiroto Okubo) and Molly, alongside the Buzz Lightyear Molly created in collaboration with Disney. This year (2020), the Harry Potter Molly and the King of Glory Molly have also been launched. Molly has a natural advantage — real people will age, but a hundred years later, Molly will still be that four or five-year-old child.

Letter Chart: You previously said you wanted to become Disney, but then changed your mind and said you wanted to become POP MART in China, why is that?

Wang Ning: We have many similarities with Disney, but also differences. The core of both is IP, but the ways of incubation and commercial operation are quite different. Our relationship with Disney is one of cooperation, not competition, and we also have cooperative relationships with other leading IP companies. This is a completely new road, let’s wait and see.

Letter Chart: There is a viewpoint that Molly and PUCKY occupy too high a proportion of POP MART's sales.

Wang Ning: The absolute sales numbers of these two IP series are increasing, but the relative proportions are not. We nearly create a super IP every year, starting with Molly, followed by PUCKY, Labubu, Dimoo, and the recently launched Skullpanda in the second half of 2020. However, behind the sales figures, there are hidden messages.

Letter Chart: What are the hidden messages behind the numbers?

Wang Ning: The cycle for designing and producing a series of trendy toys is nearly a year. Molly has nearly 10 series on sale, resulting in high sales, while the new IP Skullpanda, though currently having only one series on sale, has immense potential, breaking almost all sales records upon debut, with demand exceeding supply. However, you can only see a little from the earnings reports: Skullpanda is not selling as well as Molly. But Molly has ten series, while Skullpanda has only one, which needs time to grow and accumulate; this future success is not reflected in the current financial data.

Letter Chart: Although Skullpanda has potential, some believe that POP MART has too few of its own IPs, with non-exclusive IPs making up a large portion — is this a concern?

Wang Ning: First, exclusive IPs always account for the vast majority of sales. Secondly, the trendy toy industry is not one where the number of IPs determines the outcome. Taking the music industry as an example, there may be up to millions of creators, yet your playlist might not exceed 20 people. After all, people's time and energy are limited, and top IPs are the decisive force.

Alphabet Ranking: How much do you spend on developing IP each year?

Wang Ning: I don't have the specific number yet, but as a leader in the industry, our investment must be the largest. We hold the two biggest industry exhibitions each year - the Beijing and Shanghai international trendy toy fairs; we have the largest online community, as well as integrating all channels and the supply chain; all top artists and top IPs are on our platform. We are the builders of the infrastructure in this industry.

You either understand young people, or pretend to celebrate.

Alphabet Ranking: What attitude do you plan to adopt towards those who do not understand POP MART?

Wang Ning: When I started my business, my father said something to me that moved me. He said, 'I oppose you, but I support you.'

Alphabet Ranking: Sounds a bit contradictory.

Wang Ning: Yes. He opposed me because what I was doing exceeded his thinking framework and understanding; he couldn't comprehend it. He supported me because he had the courage to realize that his thinking framework could also be wrong — if it were correct, why hadn't he become a business giant?

People can oppose many things because their thinking framework limits them. But it may be more valuable to think about why POP MART succeeded.

Letter List: Do you study Bilibili? Last May, Bilibili launched the speech 'The Afterwave' by actor He Bing, which I understand is actually an attempt to build a bridge between young people and middle-aged people who cannot understand them.

Wang Ning: Fans all say Bilibili is a 'little broken station.' But with a market cap of 30 billion dollars, Bilibili has already surpassed many predecessors in the video sector, can it still be called 'little' and 'broken'? Yet when many people mention video websites, they might still first think of some earlier names. Any emerging culture is not understood early on, just like back in middle school when everyone questioned how Jay Chou could become popular.

Letter List: Everyone says that unclear enunciation can't lead to becoming a singer.

Wang Ning: Unclear enunciation, not understanding what he's singing, laughing and making noise, how could that become popular? The misunderstanding of trend toys is the same. Maybe in another 20 years, looking back at Bilibili or POP MART, one might think, how could we have thought that way back then?

Letter List: Bilibili's production of 'The Afterwave' has lowered its stance and actively sought the understanding of middle-aged people, will POP MART do the same?

Wang Ning: Our core user group is women aged 15 to 30, and we are now widening our offerings to include products that boys like, but further understanding and acceptance will take time. Right now, everyone knows what a Blind Box is, which is the first step. Only then will people think about what POP MART is actually selling.

Letter List: Does POP MART not actively promote some awareness?

Wang Ning: The culture is different. It's like going to karaoke together; when you pass the microphone to someone born in the 90s or 95s, and then to the ones born in 00s, you realize they sing songs you've never heard of, and the scary part is that the microphone will never come back. If you want to blend in with the young people, you either need to understand their culture or pretend to celebrate. You must listen to their music.

Letter List: PDD Holdings has done a lot of television advertising; Huang Zheng stated that the purpose of the ads is to inform everyone that PDD Holdings is not a scam. Will POP MART advertise?

Wang Ning: Different strategies and tactics apply to different Industries. Historically, POP MART seldom advertises, as we believe that the best advertisement is to open stores, place them in better locations, and allow more people to touch, see, and understand our products. This has been the core of our marketing for many years.

Having a puritanical approach to the career.

Letter List: In terms of company management, what are some things you cannot tolerate?

Wang Ning: I care a lot about extreme details; retail is all about details, and extreme is also a part of our corporate culture. I will focus on many small details that are easily overlooked, whether they are in-store operational details or product and service details. I hope the team can achieve perfection in these aspects, though we still have a long way to go.

Letter List: Do you need to consider these (details) yourself?

Wang Ning: Because we started from scratch in the retail industry, we must learn from the details: How high should the bar counter be? How wide or narrow should the cabinets be? Should the lights use yellow, white, or warm light? What is the appropriate decibel level for the music?

What color of bricks should be used for the ground to be dirt-resistant? How many grams of paper are needed for a bag to save costs while not looking too cheap? Should the bag be in color or black and white, and how many colors should be used? Our current bags are standard and can hold two Blind Boxes; what is the width? Because being one centimeter wider incurs a lot of additional costs annually. How high should it be? How many sizes should there be? Should the shopping baskets in the store be soft or hard...

Letter Board: Is there anything you particularly regret?

Wang Ning: I have always considered myself a person who dares to think and act. As long as I have an idea, I will try to do it, and I try not to let myself have regrets in the future. During my time in Peking, on May 31, 2009, I attended the graduation ceremony, took a train to Beijing in the afternoon, and started work at 9 AM the next day. My first company was in Shangdi, with a monthly salary of 2000 yuan, and I had no one to rely on. Every time I went to Sanlitun, it felt like the New Year; I didn't even know Uniqlo, HM, and ZARA. At that time, I never dreamed I would one day create a brand and open a store in Taikoo Li.

Letter Board: The quality of daring to think and act seems quite scarce now; young people want to take civil service exams.

Wang Ning: Wealth is experience. If you want to enrich your life, you have to go through more experiences. This is something I realized a long time ago.

Letter Board: Experiences won't always be successful; what if there's a failure?

Wang Ning: We started from scratch, beginning with painting walls and selling goods on a tricycle. Even if we fail now, how bad could it really be? We started with nothing; what is there to fear?

Letter Board: I find it hard to believe that over the past ten years, you haven't wavered due to failure.

Wang Ning: I really like 'Who Moved My Cheese'. We are like the little mice in that book, rather than clever humans. The method is to try different paths one by one; if this path doesn't work, switch to the next one, and if that doesn't work, change to another path, constantly falling and getting back up. Bags, shoes, digital products, cosmetics, nail polish, groceries, stationery, we have sold them all.

Letter Ranking: Now POP MART's market cap has exceeded 100 billion, will it still be unburdened like before?

Wang Ning: I often tell my colleagues that our business career has just begun. Our team is still young, now we have funds, experience, and a platform; there are many things we can do, so what is there to fear?