Source: The Intelligent Investor

On January 5, 2025, Duan Yongping returned to his alma mater, Zhejiang University, to engage with faculty and students for 90 minutes, similar to the news of his donation of 1 billion to the school at the end of 2023, which instantly went viral.

Since transitioning from entrepreneur to investor, Duan Yongping's visibility has continued to increase.

In this exchange hosted by two students, Duan Yongping's responses maintained his usual style: straightforward, down-to-earth, and very candid.

As one questioner mentioned, in public settings, many people are careful about how to speak, and Duan Yongping's authentic style is quite rare.

There were also many insightful remarks.

For example, "Rather than critical thinking, I think it is more about cultivating a habit: to consider the essence of things and look long-term."

"True innovation is about doing what users need but have not yet been satisfied."

I believe the most important thing is to do the right things and to do things right.

Our understanding of investment (with Buffett) is consistent. As I just said, investment is essentially value investment. If you are not investing in value, then what are you investing in?

Whether in investment or entrepreneurship, the core is to seriously think about the business model. However, entrepreneurship and investment are still different. Entrepreneurship requires more emotion and passion. You must choose to do the things that you truly feel passionate about.

It is unnecessary to learn everything; it is more important to learn what you need.

I think life should have quality. If you are just alive, for example, hooked up to a machine, merely to prolong life for some reason, that state is too painful. Therefore, I very much understand Qiong Yao's choice.

Ultimately, you will become the person you were meant to be.

……

Since the main body of Duan Yongping's holdings in the USA (H&H International Investment) came into public view, it has received widespread attention.

The information disclosed in the US stock market for the third quarter of last year showed that Duan Yongping's total Hold Positions amounted to 16.54 billion USD, which did not change significantly compared to the second quarter, but the number of individual Stocks held decreased from 9 to 8, mainly because he completely sold off his shares in Bank of America.

For Apple and Bank of America, Duan Yongping, like Buffett, chose to reduce his holdings in the third quarter.

Duan Yongping also slightly reduced his holdings in Berkshire, Alibaba, and Moderna, while significantly increasing his holdings in Google (slightly), Occidental Petroleum (substantially), and PDD Holdings (substantially), with the number of Disney shares remaining unchanged.

During this exchange, Duan Yongping also mentioned that "the money I manage is equivalent to that of a medium-sized hedge fund, or even more."

The conversation mainly did not revolve much around investment topics, but there were plenty of discussions around the life topics of young people. Underlying this is the knowledge of Shanghai DZH Limited.

Duan Yongping's catchphrases are quite amusing, with phrases like "brain is sick", "I don't know", and "I'm just busy playing basketball" appearing five to eight times. Haha, his personal style is quite evident.

The two small stories he shared about his interactions with Buffett and Huang Zheng are also very interesting and quite detailed. Below are the key points整理 from Duan Yongping's Q&A, shared with everyone.

• Question 1: How do you quickly determine if a company is worthy of long-term investment?

Duan Yongping, I am not very good at quick determinations.

If you look at my investments over the past 10 years, they have always been in just a few companies. Those choices are the result of my years of understanding of enterprises, businesses, products, and many other aspects.

I have never seen anyone who can really make quick determinations. Even Buffett and Munger, they actually take their time. Those who are good at investing do not care about missing some opportunities; what matters more is to avoid pitfalls, right?

Many people will say, of course you don’t need to make quick money because you have money; we need to make quick money because we don’t have money.

I usually respond that this may be the reason you don't have money. Stop thinking about making quick money.

Of course, who doesn’t want to make quick money? I want to as well, but knowing what cannot be done is very important. It is still necessary to do what needs to be done steadily.

Follow-up question: Is Senior Duan's point that you should dare to try, while also having a longer-term perspective?

Duan Yongping: There is no problem with daring to try, but the key is how you go about trying. For example, I am not someone who is afraid of taking risks, but I will choose risks that I can afford.

My fastest investment was at a casino, where I turned 100 yuan into over 2000 yuan, and then I immediately stopped. But can such things be repeated? Obviously not.

Investing in NetEase back then also made over 20 times my investment in just a few months, and I went all in. Someone said, "You are amazing, do it again!" I replied, "That won't happen, it was just good luck."

We've also done very well with the investment in Apple. We invested in 2011, and now it's 2025, exactly 14 years. Without a deep understanding of Apple's business, culture, and business model, I would have left long ago and wouldn't have persisted until today.

Therefore, the concept of "fast" is very difficult in investing. It may be necessary to be "fast" in competitions, but investing requires more patience and careful consideration.

• Question 2: As an entrepreneur and investor, would you encourage contemporary college students to start their own businesses? Why?

Duan Yongping: I believe that those who should start a business do not need others to encourage them. If you have a strong idea, you will act on it.

The conditions for starting a business now are much better than they were in our time. You can find support from venture capital and various funds, while back then we started from scratch without any external help, relying solely on ourselves.

So, the current entrepreneurial environment is completely different from what we experienced, with much better conditions.

But I think the most important point is: one should not start a business just for the sake of starting a business. You must have a genuine idea, or sometimes starting a business is a good way out when you find yourself in a desperate situation.

We started our business back then because we were at a dead end.

• Question 3: In the ever-changing context of the times, how do you keep learning and adapting to new knowledge?

Duan Yongping: Do I have to learn new things?

In fact, this is how I feel: I think the most important thing that schools teach is 'learning ability'. Once you have learning ability, you need not fear changes in the future. When encountering something of interest, you will naturally find ways to learn about it. For example, you will look for books, research materials, and understand it.

Both logical ability and learning ability are very important, and this is usually proportional to one's education level. People with lower education levels may have relatively poorer learning abilities.

For example, my mother once told me: 'The iPhone and iPad are too difficult to use, I definitely cannot learn.' She was refusing to learn. I have seen many people who are the same way, refusing to learn.

Not long ago, I encountered a colleague, and I asked him: 'Why do you still use a handwritten board?' He said: 'I'm used to it; I've never learned to type.'

I said, "This is too inefficient; you should learn." He replied, "Alright." Then I told him, "Actually, it only takes three days to learn typing."

In the beginning, we also didn't have typing devices and used handwritten boards connected to computers. But as long as there is no fear, and you know you can learn, there won't be any problem.

Of course, you still need to learn what you need. Now is an era of knowledge explosion; it's impossible to learn everything new, as that would not only be tiring but possibly also useless.

Some people are very knowledgeable, but can anyone be more comprehensive than a Search Engine? Therefore, there's no need to learn everything.

• Question 4: A good business track often enters a low-profit period as competition intensifies. How should entrepreneurs respond in such low-profit periods?

Duan Yongping: First, a good track will not enter low profits. Low-profit tracks usually belong to industries with poor business models and little product differentiation. If an entrepreneur still wants to enter such a track, that would be just foolish.

Whether in investment or entrepreneurship, the core is to carefully consider the business model. However, entrepreneurship and investment are still different. Entrepreneurship requires more emotion and passion. You must choose to do things you genuinely feel connected to.

When I chose to make games, there was no other reason; it was simply because I liked playing games. So I never criticize students who love to play games; I am that kind of person.

My son wants to play games, and I let him. I just discuss with him how long he can play. He needs to 'earn' time by completing other tasks instead of simply being forbidden to play games.

In fact, whether it's studying or other activities, they are essentially a form of play. Some people enjoy learning because they derive pleasure from it; playing games is the same, as it is also a source of joy.

Starting a business is the same. If you only aim to make money or stand out through entrepreneurship without feeling passionate about what you're doing, the final outcome may be hard to satisfy.

When I was involved with the Little Tyrant game console, I actually thought very simply. I knew many people would enjoy playing games like I do; I didn’t need to persuade others to play, I just needed to make the product the best it could be.

In contrast, if you want to create something entirely new, you first need to make people aware of what it is, which is significantly more difficult.

However, taking something people already love and perfecting it—whether it's quality, distribution, or service—has much lower difficulty.

Of course, as a business grows to a certain scale, it must move to the forefront and explore new areas.

For example, in our early years, we advocated for 'daring to be the last in the world'; at that time, the company was still small. Now that we have grown, many new directions must also be explored. What if we don't venture forth and find ourselves with no one ahead of us?

• Question 5: Your "Philosophy of Duty" mentions doing the right thing. So how should college students determine whether something is right?

Duan Yongping: In fact, most people know what is right and wrong. Some things may be unknown at first, but you will learn after doing them because you will be punished. The key is that when you realize you are wrong, you must stop immediately.

In most cases, people know which things are wrong. But why do they continue to do what they know is wrong? It’s because wrong actions often have short-term temptations. For example, smoking and excessive drinking are behaviors that many people know are bad, yet they continue. Of course, these actions do not harm others; they just are not good for oneself, so the problem is still not too big.

But behaviors like cheating and academic dishonesty are known to be wrong, yet some people still engage in them. Do such things still need to be taught at university?

Therefore, I think everyone needs to have integrity, to restrain themselves with their inner moral compass. Once an error is discovered, it should be corrected immediately. This is the same principle in business.

For example, someone buys a wrong stock, fully aware that the company's fundamentals have issues, yet is reluctant to sell due to losses, hoping to wait until it rebounds before selling. This behavior is quite common.

I remember someone asked me what to do about LeEco stocks. He said, "LeEco has now dropped to over 30 dollars, what should I do?" I replied, "Over 30 dollars is already a good price because it might go to zero in the future. Selling now is the right choice."

Yet he still wanted to wait until it rose back to 50 dollars to sell. Later I found out that this person wanted to sell the stocks to me, which is ridiculous, and he was also the second-largest shareholder of LeEco. I think he is a bad person (not upright).

• Question 6: The deep teacher-student friendship you experienced during your studies at Communication and Information is enviable. How do you think a young teacher just entering the workforce should inherit this educational spirit and achieve a mutual connection with students?

Duan Yongping: This question is a bit difficult. I am not very familiar with the current school life.

But I believe the key to the teacher-student relationship lies with the teacher. As long as the teacher truly cares about and pays attention to the students, a good relationship can naturally be established.

In our time, the school was small, and there were fewer people, so there was more interaction between teachers and students, leading to closer relationships. I am not sure about the current situation.

• Question 7: If you were 20 years old today and wanted to start a business, which track would you choose? What are the criteria for choosing partners?

Duan Yongping: I really don't know the answer to this question. If given the opportunity, I might choose to find a job and enjoy life.

Starting a business is not easy; one should not be misled by successful cases. In reality, the probability of success is very low. Most people work hard their whole lives but may not achieve good results.

For example, Zhu Kezhen College is very impressive, Huang Zheng from PDD Holdings came from there. He is remarkable, but that does not mean that the probability of success is higher for everyone pursuing entrepreneurship.

If you really want to start a business, then go ahead and do it. The current conditions are much better than when we were young. But if you are only starting a business for the sake of it, then be careful. That is my opinion.

To be honest, in this era of information explosion, I spend all day playing basketball and have no time to manage these things.

• Question 8: What paths can liberal arts students choose in innovation and entrepreneurship?

Duan Yongping: Simply put, I don't know. I am not from a liberal arts background; in high school, we only had political and language classes, which are quite different from the current education system.

When I was in college, I surprisingly scored over 60 in the language exam, which I didn't expect since I had no foundation. However, my mom worked at the library, so I often went there, and although the books I read weren't very advanced, they were sufficient.

So, I really don't have a clear idea of what paths liberal arts students can take in entrepreneurship.

• Question 9: How do you relax when you are tired?

Duan Yongping: When tired, just sleep. If you want to sleep well, sometimes doing some stretching helps, that's about it. There are no special relaxation methods; we are all ordinary people, and I don't have any mysterious tips.

I believe that students should develop the habit of exercising during university and even before that. Additionally, exercising safely is very important.

• Question 10: What characteristics and atmosphere of Zhejiang University have influenced your entrepreneurship, investment, and life?

Duan Yongping: I remember someone in our unit once said, "You must follow in Duan Yongping's footsteps, so you should send your son to the Information Engineering Department."

I laughed when I heard this, and said, "You have not gone to any river I have fished in, so you actually don't understand."

Growth is determined by many factors. If one factor could completely influence a person, then everyone in the same environment would have the same result.

So, when you ask me if Zhejiang University has had an impact? Of course it has. Zhejiang University is definitely a good school, there is no doubt about that.

At that time, I felt that the teacher-student relationship was particularly good because there were few people and the place was small; now I am not too sure, because there are indeed many more students and teachers than in the past.

Host 2: Now, students of Information Engineering have a particularly classic phrase: diligent and optimistic.

Duan Yongping: I think the most important thing is to do the right thing and do things correctly.

You mention diligence; can you force yourself to be diligent? At least I cannot. I have always been someone who enjoys being lazy. However, my "laziness" does not mean taking shortcuts, such as cheating on exams or using ChatGPT to write papers. These actions are merely reference tools and cannot replace your own thinking to do the right things.

You need to have things in your mind, know what is right, and quickly correct any mistakes you discover. Optimism is a personality issue; not everyone can easily achieve it.

Host 2: Before diligence and optimism, should there also be Zhejiang University's spirit of "seeking truth and innovation"?

Duan Yongping: Innovation must be approached with caution. Many people mistakenly understand innovation simply as being "different", but this interpretation is quite dangerous.

The key question is, what exactly do you want to do? What value can you bring to users? If you create something that nobody has done before, does that count as innovation? But if no one likes it, isn't that still a failure?

True innovation is to do what users need but have not yet been satisfied. Differentiation follows the same logic; it is not about being "different" for the sake of being different, but about meeting user needs and achieving what others cannot.

For example, when building a building, ensuring good quality is a form of service; but if it is merely aesthetically pleasing yet not functional, then it is meaningless.

I have mentioned that "daring to be the first in the world" can be supported by many examples. For instance, Google dared to be the first, and its search engine was not the first to launch; Yahoo was much earlier. However, Google had a stronger capability, taking the lead later and ultimately winning the market.

Apple's iPhone reflects a similar situation. When we made phones, we felt that we were much earlier than Apple. Yet, Apple relied on its strong capabilities and profound understanding of user experience, taking the lead later and becoming the benchmark of the industry.

Microsoft has never been able to surpass Google in the search domain, so it is especially keen on developing other GPTs (Generative AI), attempting to reclaim the market from another direction. This is just my speculation; I do not know if it will ultimately succeed, but this is a typical late-entry strategy.

Therefore, the key to innovation is not being the "first", but rather "doing the best".

• Question 11: What is your view on chasing trends, and the relationship between imitation and innovation?

Duan Yongping: The definition of chasing trends is actually incomplete; I also cannot figure out what chasing trends means. Chasing celebrities counts, and chasing hot spots also counts, right?

You just mentioned imitation and innovation. I think if you can create something that is neither imitation nor merely good, that would certainly be the best. But in reality, I find it very difficult to find an example that did not start from imitation.

For example, when Microsoft was just getting started, it did not have particularly original products; many were built on existing foundations. The same goes for Apple, Google, and Facebook.

Facebook may be a bit special, but its social media model is actually built on others' foundations, as it was originally part of the Harvard campus network.

So, I think imitation and innovation are not contradictory. Imitation is the starting point for many innovations, and the key to innovation lies in whether one can do better and create more value based on imitation.

• Question 12: How to cultivate critical thinking in addressing problems?

Duan Yongping: I'm not very clear about what critical thinking is. I don’t have what you would call critical thinking.

I tend to think more about the essence of the problem. If one can think long-term and about the essence, that's good. For example, when doing things, if you pay attention to the essence like I do, that's great, and I don't need to criticize you.

Sometimes I hear viewpoints, such as someone saying 'diligence is the most important.' I disagree with this view. I believe the most important thing is to do the right things. Just because you say diligence is the most important, will you become more diligent? At least I won’t.

On the contrary, if you focus on doing the right things and quickly correct mistakes when found, every decision you make is based on long-term considerations, like looking back 10 or 20 years later, which can save a lot of effort.

Some of my classmates have graduated for 30 or 40 years, and they are all smart people, but some have been stuck in place for decades, possibly because each small decision only considers immediate benefits. This kind of diligence is useless.

Therefore, rather than calling it critical thinking, I believe it is more about developing a habit: to think about the essence of everything and look at the long term.

Over time, you may develop such a thinking habit. But whether it's called critical thinking, I'm not sure.

To be honest, the term 'critical thinking' sounds a bit harsh to me (laughs).

• Question 13: How to become a very determined and high-energy person like you, able to face challenges and pains in work and life with ease?

Duan Yongping: I am an ordinary person and can also experience pain. Besides, I am a lazy person. You see, I retired early, at 63 years old, and I have been retired for over 20 years.

I am unwilling to face a high-pressure life. I have enjoyed the pleasure of work, and now there are younger, more capable people who do better than I do, so why not enjoy it?

Of course, this is not luck that everyone has. It is very important to meet good partners to collaborate with.

What I have achieved today cannot be separated from the support and sharing of others. I believe that many people employ others to have them serve themselves, while I prefer that they serve themselves rather than serving me.

For example, our company does not have a sales department; we only sell to agents. Because I found that the clients of the sales department always tried to negotiate prices, which was very exhausting. Later, we set a unified price directly, so every client pays the same, and there are no discounts for major clients.

In the early days of doing business, I had to have eight meals a day, go for a sauna six times, and run to many KTVs; this state was like 'madness', but at that time, there was no other way. Clients came one after the other to negotiate prices.

Later, I spent three years establishing a complete sales system, which completely resolved these issues. This was also a way to cope with pressure.

So, I did not just bear it, but found a way to minimize the pressure.

• Question 14: What qualities of young people would attract you? What kind of people do you want to partner with?

Duan Yongping: Actually, this is not related to age. For me, I do not like to deal with people I cannot communicate with.

I particularly like Huang Zheng because I think he is someone who sees the essence, which is very similar to me. I think this is very important.

Would you consider him a young person? Of course. I heard that I might also qualify (laughs).

In fact, it goes back to what I mentioned earlier, you should do the right things and do things right, thinking long-term. Huang Zheng is that kind of person. Therefore, when we chat, we rarely find ourselves "not on the same wavelength while chatting."

However, it is really not easy to keep chatting with most people.

Ultimately, it is still necessary to return to the essence of things.

• Question 15: If you could make your freshly graduated self persist in doing one thing every day, what would you choose?

Duan Yongping: Sleeping (laughs).

What does "persisting every day" mean? I think exercise is very important; although it doesn't have to be every day, you should maintain physical health and keep your brain clear.

Of course, another important thing is to be clear in logic and think long-term. Persist in doing the right things. If mistakes are found, correct them quickly. This is a learning process.

Many people cannot distinguish between "wrong things" and "doing things wrong"; these two are fundamentally different in nature.

One should not refrain from doing things out of fear of making mistakes. Because no matter what, mistakes will always happen.

However, one should not do something that is clearly wrong.

• Question 16: Can you share the setbacks you encountered during your education and entrepreneurship?

Duan Yongping: I almost didn't graduate from university, which can also be considered a setback.

There were even more setbacks in entrepreneurship. Every issue with a product could become a hassle. At that time, my phone was on 24 hours a day, but I was very reluctant to answer calls, because each call could bring trouble.

Follow-up: In the face of these setbacks, do you have any insights on solutions to share?

Duan Yongping: Actually, I do have some. I believe that when doing things, it is important to think long-term as much as possible.

Do not let important things become urgent matters. For example, when it comes to physical exercise, you cannot wait until you are seriously ill to see a doctor. Although seeing a doctor is important, and regular check-ups are important, the most important thing is to prevent problems in advance.

I remember doing a program in Peking called 'Crisis Moment.' The host asked me, 'What should you do in a crisis moment?' I said, driving at 200 kilometers per hour, there is a wall 20 meters ahead, and you are definitely going to crash into it. What do you think I should do? There is nothing that can be done, you're doomed. The most important thing is not to drive that fast!

Actually, this is the essence of the problem. You need to solve the issue from a long-term perspective, rather than waiting until things become unmanageable to respond.

Many people like to watch stories of 'Crisis Moments,' thinking someone is fearless in the face of danger, but in the end, didn’t they still die? So, being unafraid in a crisis is meaningless. The most important thing is to prevent the crisis from occurring.

'Safety first' does not mean that you only remedy things when a crisis occurs, but rather to be prepared in advance to avoid a crisis.

• Question 17: What is your view on the impact of information asymmetry on investment and choice?

Duan Yongping: Investing in stocks does not attract me much, unless you are the type who buys and immediately wants to sell, looking to earn some 'unearned money,' right?

Of course, there are also some people who make money through information asymmetry; personally, I do not like this method very much. For me, investment is not a zero-sum game, while information asymmetry is essentially a zero-sum game.

You use information that others have not yet mastered to make money, essentially profiting off what others 'should be earning.'

Although this statement is not completely accurate, it seems that Algo investing might have such a nature. That said, if you don't do it, others will, so from a business perspective, this approach is justifiable.

But in the long run, the profits brought by these information asymmetries are just minor ripples. If you worry too much about these, you will be exhausted. I still want to play ball, should I give up life for these matters?

My investment philosophy is to think long-term, find good companies, and then Hold them for the long term. Some people say: 'Then just hold on to it.' But the problem is, good companies need to be understandable and clear. If you pick the wrong company, your outcome can be worse.

I have discussed with many people, and they always misinterpret 'value investing' as 'long-term investing.' It is not that simple. The core of value investing is to invest in valuable things. If you don't invest in value, then what do you invest in?

Therefore, I place more emphasis on finding good companies and holding them for the long term, as this will make your life much more enjoyable.

For example, Charlie Munger only partnered with Buffett at 58, and they both lived very long and healthy lives afterward. However, many 'investment stars' who take shortcuts for short-term gains end up with poor outcomes.

Some people even fail in business due to shortsightedness and end up in prison. There are cases in the country where wealthy individuals, seemingly having it all, end up taking extreme measures due to emotional distress.

• Question 18: Have you ever experienced critical decision-making moments involving high risk and high reward? How to balance risk and return in the face of a highly uncertain market?

Duan Yongping knows it's high risk but still chooses to go for it, which means something is wrong with the mindset. It really is like that.

However, venture capital is different; venture capitalists do not use their own money to take risks, they are investing other people's money. When they make profits, they receive a share, so they can do this.

Of course, they will have certain judgments, such as whether the market has potential and whether it will be popular in the future.

They attract more financing with such logic; the first round of investment leads to profits in the second, third, and fourth rounds.

Venture capital is actually a very modern product that did not exist in our time. For the investment itself, logically, one must clearly understand the business model and future cash flow.

If certain it can really make money, only then would there be confidence to invest, and it would feel quite enjoyable to do so.

Venture capital is different from our investment methods. They invest a little here, a little there, relying on probability distribution. What they earn is actually the money from the whole market.

For example, Sun Zhengyi is a very famous venture capitalist. But if you take away the two companies that made money for him, he might not be making a profit. Including those earnings, he actually hasn't earned much, yet he is a very well-known venture capitalist, which is quite interesting.

You say that the money he makes is indeed a lot less compared to Buffett and Munger. However, many entrepreneurs, through the support of venture capital, can have a high personal net worth when their company's market cap is high.

But such success is very rare; there might only be one person in tens of millions who is as successful as Elon Musk. You see him successfully making electric cars, but you don't see how many electric vehicle companies in China go bankrupt every year; that's the reality.

Further inquiry: For example, in the pharmaceutical industry, there is huge uncertainty in developing a new pipeline, including the risk of clinical approval. In the face of such high-risk, high-reward situations, how would you consider it?

Duan Yongping: If it’s about running a company or venture capital, these matters are meaningful. The characteristic of venture capital is to use a small amount of funds to seek high returns. But for large funds, this becomes more difficult.

For example, earning 10% to 25% per year is pretty good for me. If I were to pursue a project that might have a 500% return but could also lead to total loss, why would I take that risk? So generally, I wouldn't engage in such matters.

But now this mechanism is good; someone needs to take these high-risk, high-reward actions, right?

The pharmaceutical industry is a typical example. In biotechnology, pharmaceuticals, and even the technology field, many new ideas do not have a mature business model when they first emerge.

Investors like us should not invest because I do not have that much time to study these matters. I still want to play basketball (laughs).

Many people say I should pay more attention to these things, but I say there's no need to care. By the time it matures and the model is clear, I can come back.

I am not a professional investor. Although I manage money equivalent to a medium-sized hedge fund, or even more, I'm not as busy as they are.

I see many investment institutions with three or four hundred people busy every day. I just bought Apple Stocks and held onto them. In contrast, I really don't understand what they are busy with.

So, I really understand the logic of high risk and high return investments you mentioned, but I generally avoid such projects.

Follow-up question: Can it be understood that these are two different investment styles, and you are more inclined to choose investments with high certainty?

Duan Yongping: You mention high risk, but is there high return? If I am sure there is high return, I am willing to participate. It depends on whether you truly understand it.

For the companies I invest in, many people consider them high risk, but I don't think so. This is because I understand them. If you don't understand, don't get involved.

Additionally, never use leverage. For example, using stocks as collateral for financing, thinking the stock price will rise, and borrowing a lot of money. If the stock price drops before it rises, you might be finished. Therefore, I generally won't touch such things.

With such investments, life will be much easier. There will still be time to play basketball (laughs).

• Question 19: How should young people cope with the current economic downturn?

Duan Yongping: In fact, the elderly are also facing this problem, which is not related to young people.

Honestly, I really don't know how to answer this question, I can only say "Take care of yourself."

Even in times of economic difficulty, good companies are still good companies, and a decent life can still be maintained.

For example, Tencent, Moutai, and our company are all doing quite well. A drop in Moutai's stock price does not mean the company's situation is bad; in fact, it is still very good. There is still a supply-demand imbalance for liquor, and when we purchase Moutai, the quantities we can get are quite limited.

• Question 20: How can Chinese companies truly achieve globalization and localization?

Duan Yongping: As of now, the only Chinese companies that have truly achieved globalization are probably PDD Holdings and Douyin, while other companies may be more focused on localized globalization.

However, I believe that "globalization" is somewhat of a false proposition. There is no need to deliberately pursue it. When your strength and needs reach a certain level, globalization will naturally occur.

If there is no strength and no demand, then you cannot venture out.

I remember when I first arrived in the USA years ago, I thought the Super Bowl was a great place to advertise. If there was a suitable product, I would definitely want to use the Super Bowl to enter the market. But years have passed, and we have not found a product suitable for entering this market, and we still haven't achieved that.

Huang Zheng succeeded.

Once, Huang Zheng asked me, "How do you think this advertisement is performing?" I said, "I saw it, what do you think?" He said, "The effect is okay." I suggested that he run two more ads. The next year, he directly ran four ads.

He immediately grasped the key points.

I have asked many people in the USA, "Do you know Temu?" Almost everyone said they knew. Even the maid who works at my home uses Temu. Although I rarely buy things on there myself, it indeed has some products that attracted many consumers.

Its model is impressive, and the quality keeps improving, progressing little by little.

• Question 21: You mentioned the Super Bowl advertisements; many companies are very high-profile in their ads, but your personal representation for the public seems limited. What do you think about companies being high-profile but entrepreneurs being low-key?

Duan Yongping: I retired long ago. When I was the CEO, I often appeared in public, and there are still some videos from those years available.

But since I have retired, I don't meddle in matters that are no longer my responsibility. Now my days are just about playing ball, which has nothing to do with being high-profile or low-key.

I am just an ordinary person; I have never deliberately tried to be high-profile nor low-key. I simply do what needs to be done.

I am no longer on the front line of the company. People may think it is still my company, but in fact, it is theirs now.

I am just someone who loves to play ball.

Follow-up question: Your nickname on Xueqiu is 'The Dao is Invisible, but I Have Form'; does this name have any special meaning?

Duan Yongping: Actually, there is no special story. The saying 'The Dao is Invisible' already exists. Moreover, I used 'The Dao is Invisible' when I played 'Fantasy Westward Journey' before.

Later, I found that someone registered "The Way is Formless" on Xueqiu, so I jokingly changed it to "The Way is Formless, but I have a form."

• Question 22: After communicating with Buffett, what is the biggest commonality regarding value investing? Are there any differentiated views on value investing?

Duan Yongping: Our understanding of investment is consistent. As I just said, investment is actually value investing. If you are not investing in value, then what are you investing in?

Of course, speculation is another matter. Speculators focus on opportunities, and this statement can also hold.

As for differences, there are certainly some. Our understanding of different businesses varies. He knows many businesses he is good at, while I understand businesses that he may not know, right?

For example, Buffett has bought a lot of Apple Stocks, but he started buying them in 2016, while I started buying them in 2011. I specifically talked to him about Apple once in 2018.

It was like this that time: he heard that I had a blog, probably told by Li Lu.

He asked me: "Is there an English version of your blog? I want to take a look."

I replied, "Warren, you know my English level, how can I write a blog in English? Besides, all the good things I write come from you."

Then I said, "But if you want to talk about Apple, I can come over and chat with you."

He said, "Come find me anytime you pass by, I really want to chat with you!"

At that moment, I thought, how can I "pass by" Omaha? I checked the map and found that going from Chicago to Omaha counts as "passing by."

So I arranged a trip to Chicago and emailed him saying I would "pass by" Omaha, and he immediately replied, "Then come on over!"

On that day, we met at the restaurant in his golf club, just the three of us having a meal together.

At first, he was very humorous, and to liven up the atmosphere, he mentioned that he used to drink PepsiCo when he was a child.

I said, "How come I haven't heard of that, isn't it all Coca-Cola?"

He said, "At that time, the price of PepsiCo was only half that of Coca-Cola, so of course I drank PepsiCo."

Then we talked about Apple. I told him, "I think Apple's business model, especially the iPhone, is better than Coca-Cola." I come from a marketing background, so I feel strongly about this.

I explained, "When you were a child, you drank PepsiCo because it was half the price of Coca-Cola. But look at the price difference between Android phones and iPhones. However, true Apple users don't care at all about this; at least that's the case in the USA and it's the same in China. People who use Apple just use Apple, and that’s the end of it."

After listening to this, he said, "I got it."

That night we talked about many other things, but the topic of Apple ended there.

Later, at the 2022 Berkshire Shareholders Meeting, he invited me to a dinner at the Omaha Aquarium.

I remember very clearly, it was a very interesting place, like a large auditorium with about 50 round tables arranged. When I walked in, I saw that at one table there were only two people, Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger.

As soon as I sat down, Bill Gates walked over from the opposite side, and then the four of us had dinner together.

At that time, Warren said something: "He told me that Apple's business model is better than Coca-Cola's, so I bought a lot of Apple." I found it quite interesting at that moment, thinking that he actually remembered our conversation from four years ago.

His purchase of a lot of Apple may have nothing to do with me, but he has held onto it until now without selling it, which perhaps has something to do with our conversation, but this point cannot be verified.

• Question 23 What is your next life goal or ultimate goal?

Duan Yongping Life is about living a long, healthy life. I feel that life should be of quality; merely existing, for instance, being on life support, just to continue living for some reason, that state is too painful.

Therefore, I completely understand Qiong Yao's choice, I think her thinking is reasonable. When it's time to remove the support, just remove it.

However, this requires one's own effort. One should exercise regularly, live well, and maintain a cheerful mood. Optimism is very important at this time.

• Question 24 What are your thoughts on the development of AI? How will AI develop rapidly in the coming years and what kind of impact will it bring?

Duan Yongping My simple statement is: it feels profound but I don't really understand it (laugh).

I do think AI is impressive, but to be honest, I don't really understand it well. I might have to ask those who know more about this in the future to determine how this AI will turn out. The people in academia have a clearer view than we do and are more forward-thinking.

Follow-up: Opportunities of the times wait for no one. Should I continue pursuing my studies or give up my education to start a business and seize the opportunity?

Duan Yongping: This completely depends on your own decision.

I know a friend, who is also a fellow basketball enthusiast. He was studying for a doctorate at Stanford, and a company CEO wanted to talk to him for two hours, intending to recruit him. He is **** and believes that Chinese people must complete their studies first, so he declined.

The CEO was Bill Gates.

He has always regretted that decision. However, if it had been Jobs who approached him at that time and he had gone, that would be another story. Plus, he didn’t complete his studies, right?

Therefore, in the end, it’s still up to you to determine what the right thing is. You need to think long-term, 10 years or 20 years down the line, instead of just focusing on immediate benefits. Obtaining a degree is certainly the right thing to do, but if someone like Bill Gates talked to you for two hours and you were not moved, that is indeed a bit foolish. There's no doubt about that.

You completely fail to realize what kind of person the other party is, only thinking about small benefits, like obtaining a doctorate, otherwise you would be disappointing your family, right? Parents definitely hope for you to earn a degree. But if you already have a master's degree, your perspective on these issues will be different when viewed from a long-term angle.

At that time, Microsoft wasn't very powerful, but if he had joined Microsoft, he might have become one of the top 10 employees. Just think about how impressive that would have been! Even earlier than the current CEO and people like Kaifu Lee.

So life is indeed full of opportunities and luck, right?

In any case, you will eventually become the person you are meant to be.

• Question 25: PDD Holdings and companies like Bubugao, OPPO, and Vivo all regard 'staying true to one's duty' as part of their corporate culture, but there are significant differences in their business operations. How do you understand this difference?

I understand our company's situation very well, but I really don't know the specific operations of PDD Holdings.

Many people talk to me about the issues with PDD Holdings. I say, their users are increasing, so many people like to use it; what do you mean when you say it's wrong?

I know that when Huang Zheng first started his business, for example when he founded Pinhui, he was very concerned about Agriculture. His initial intention was to enable the circulation of agricultural products. He really has done a lot for infrastructure development; I am very clear about this.

Later, when he was doing PDD Holdings, one day he called me.

I asked him, "What are you doing lately?" He said, "I'm working on PDD Holdings." I asked, "Is this the same as Pinduoduo?" He replied, "Yes, but there are a bit more things now."

Then he said he hoped that I could invest in them.

I asked him, "Can this make money?" He said he didn't know, but user growth is very fast, and many people like to use it. Moreover, suppliers are also very happy; things that were hard to sell before are now all sold out. Especially agricultural products, for example, if farmers' oranges don't sell, they will rot, right? Through their channels, these things are indeed selling very well.

After hearing what he said, I felt he was doing a good thing.

So I said, "Okay, I will treat this as a public welfare project. If it makes money, I will donate the proceeds to the Fund; if it doesn't make money but helps many people, then it is a public welfare matter."

So I invested.

Of course, I also put a condition on him: "Whatever amount you want me to invest, you should invest the same amount." Because he wasn't coming to me because he lacked money.

Actually, I don't really understand what PDD Holdings is specifically doing, nor do I know the details. But I know that when Huang Zheng is doing something, if I offer some suggestions, he will listen carefully and make changes. This shows that he cares about these issues.

There are many different opinions about PDD Holdings online, but in reality, it is indeed impressive. Metrics such as revenue and user count have been continuously increasing.

Many people who do not like PDD Holdings probably haven't even tried it and just think it is bad. This kind of thing is quite difficult to understand.

Editor/rice